The Emotional Alchemy Podcast
Welcome to the Emotional Alchemy Podcast where safety is medicine, connection is never automated and everything is relational.
The Emotional Alchemy Podcast
108. TEAM BUILDING: Reciprocal Relationships and Ethical Growth in the Hiring Process with HR Mentor + BAM Community Member Candice Elliott
Are you ready to transform your hiring process into an ethically aligned and mutually beneficial experience? Join us for an eye-opening conversation with HR Mentor Candice Elliott, where we explore the importance of reciprocity and alignment in expanding your business. Candice shares her inspiring journey from battling burnout to founding her own company, Fortress and Flourish, and how her experiences led her to reimagine the hiring process.
In this episode, we discuss the factors that drive business owners to consider hiring contractors or employees, and the potential risks of burnout when taking on too much work. Candoce offers invaluable advice on knowing when it's the right time to hire, building an outstanding team based on reciprocity, and how the way you treat and compensate your team is a reflection of your business values. We also delve into the essential role of nervous system regulation in making well-informed hiring decisions and creating a supportive work environment.
Don't miss out on this opportunity to gather essential insights on creating a thriving, ethically aligned business – listen now and transform your approach to hiring!
Resources:
Finding a Virtual Assistant Who Aligns with Your Spiritual Business with Eleisha Norman Ross
Candice Elliott is a Business Strategist and HR Mentor. She helps leaders cultivate empowered teams by aligning workflow and communication with the values of sustainability, equity and belonging. She also loves to work with solopreneurs to help them hire their first team member.
Connect with Candice:
Kat HoSoo Lee is an Emotional Alchemy Coach, Spiritual Business Mentor and host of The Emotional Alchemy Podcast.
She loves playing in the space where science and spirituality converge because this is where we get to experience emotional alchemy. In her work, she educates space-holders about somatic physiology and environmental biology so they can deepen their practices of listening and presence which ultimately helps them expand their capacity to hold space for others.
As a Spiritual Business Mentor, she guides soulful entrepreneurs to approach their business as a spiritual practice. The work bridges the emotional landscape with practical tools which allow them to cultivate businesses that are rooted in conscious values, relational marketing and purposeful service.
This podcast is made possible with sound production by Andre Lagace.
Hello and welcome to the Empowered Curiosity podcast. Today's guest is HR mentor Candice Elliott. In today's episode, we are going to talk about what it feels like and what steps you can take to expand your business by hiring a contractor or employee And, as always in this community, we want to make sure that we're doing that in ways that are aligned with the values of you and your business. Candice brings a very different perspective to HR hiring practices because they are, at the foundational level, not about extracting work from our employees and our contractors and our colleagues, and rather it's about creating a mutually beneficial relationship with the folks we work with. In this episode, we're going to be talking about how to know when it's the right time to hire an employee or contractor, how you can shift your hiring process away from traditionally extractive corporate methods to something that feels aligned with the ethics and the foundational principles of you and your business. We'll also share ways in which you can build an outstanding team based on reciprocity and hiring from a regulated nervous system. We'll share how the ways in which you treat your team and compensate them is really an embodiment of the values and the integrity you want your business to uphold. I'm proud to share that Candice is both an alumni of Business Alchemist Mentorship and also she is one of the experts that I've asked to share her wisdom within the program. So if you enroll in Business Alchemist Mentorship, you'll get her lesson, which is called My First Aligned Hire, and in that lesson she shares all the steps in very tangible, very practical ways that are helpful to take, leading up to hiring somebody and into that hiring process. That lesson is an excerpt of a bigger course that she has called My First Hire and she has that up on her website, which is called Fortress and Flourish. I'll put the link down below. So if you're in a place where you are looking to hire somebody and you're not ready to fully invest in the whole program at BAM, go check out her course on her website.
Kat Lee:This episode, after we recorded it, made me reflect on a earlier episode that I recorded. It feels like a sister episode to episode 100, which is the one that I recorded with my assistant, alicia. In that episode she and I talk about how reciprocity, sovereignty, alignment and safety are the pillars when it comes to building out a secure team. I hope you enjoy this episode that I recorded with Candice. Go check out the one that I did with Alicia as well. If this is a topic that feels aligned for you in this moment, if you're enjoying our chats here on the podcast, i would love to invite you to just take a few moments to give us a rating or review, on whatever platform it is that you listen to us on. This is how other folks, other spiritual entrepreneurs, can find our work and we can grow our community. Yay, i'm so thrilled that we get to chat with Candice Elliott today.
Candice Elliott:Candice, I'm so excited to be here.
Kat Lee:We were just saying like we've been in conversation for a really long time and I also just want to say that I've been wanting to have Candice on this podcast for a long time.
Kat Lee:She reached out to me after hearing me on a different podcast and everything that she was saying she works in HR, the intentions that she has around working in HR, all these beautiful foundational pieces that I so deeply resonate with I was like, yes, i love this woman and I don't think her work really aligns with my people. But we were having a conversation recently and we finally found the topic that would work for my particular community of spiritual entrepreneurs, who most of us are solo entrepreneurs, and then a few of us are moving into that space of wanting to hire our first employee or contractor, and so I thought, hey, let's just dive into that conversation, because I know that you tend to work mostly with figure teams that you started to sort of explore that space of what it looks like to hire your first employee, and I think that you've got such a beautiful take on hiring practices and the way we approach work and we're going to go down so many little rabbit holes. it's going to be a fun conversation.
Candice Elliott:Yeah, it's going to be awesome. Yeah, it's funny. I was giving a talk about hiring recently to a group of mostly solo printers and they just were kind of confused about having a different perspective around hiring and pay and all these different things. Because I think when you think of HR, oftentimes you think of the man who's going to come beat you down or throw the rulebook at you and I just feel so grateful that I get to work with people who want to do things in a different way, that are really supporting their community as their people in a reciprocal relationship.
Kat Lee:Yeah, so you've already started to get into it a little bit, but can you describe what that quote, unquote, different way is, so that we have a good foundation to start from in terms of like who and how we want to hire?
Candice Elliott:Yeah, so when I think I can tell this as a story So in my own company last year so I'm a solopreneur and I have four or five different independent contractors who work for me, depending on what's going on, and I had tried to hire someone previously and it didn't work out and there's a whole other story there that we can get into.
Candice Elliott:But when I was redoing this, what I wanted to find was a group of people who they love what they do Like I get to help them do what they love and that I pay them well for their time so that there's a fair exchange between the amount of work that they're doing and then the pay that they're receiving, where we have really clear and consistent communication about what they're doing, what I'm doing, how that all integrates, how all the work integrates with one another so that we can all really enjoy.
Candice Elliott:I think the purpose of life is so that we can enjoy the life that we're living, and so creating a work environment where everyone meshes well or everything works well is integral to that. I think oftentimes business owners, especially when they get to a larger size of business, if they don't start with this kind of core concept, start to feel like people who work for them, owe them and they don't get to take time off because there's a debt that they're paying back because of the money that they're receiving, and so I really kind of approach it from that different perspective.
Kat Lee:Yeah, and I think that the word that I want to highlight that you said earlier was reciprocity. It has to work for both people. It needs to be healthy and aligned for both people. I love my job and I love that my contractors all love their jobs, and so being able to sort of build on that is really what we're trying to do, i think. For contrast, i want to just share a couple of stories. They're not my stories, but they're stories from my husband, who has always worked for big companies, and so when we were living in Las Vegas, he worked as a security officer and so part of the HR department.
Kat Lee:One of the strategies that they came up with in order to avoid paying their security guys over time is it was one club, but they had multiple different business names, legal business names that they were operating under, and so then they would bill for their hours or they would invoice for their hours under different business names, so that if they worked over 40 hours that week, even though it was technically the same club, they didn't get overtime, and so there's ways in which the system is trying to exploit workers and employees so that the employer sort of wins out in the end, and right now he's actually in a process. He's gotten a new job as a bus driver and through their union they're required to have 10 hours in between shifts so that they can at least sleep, make sure that they get their eight hours of sleep. And he just got scheduled for a shift that is just eight hours apart from each other, so he gets off at midnight and has to come in at 8am, and so he's fighting to have that changed because again, there's that exploitation piece that I think that a lot of people don't take into consideration, and I mean those are extreme cases, but I think that that's kind of what our system and society is used to seeing in terms of HR. And so when you say that there's a different approach, i think that it's not just a conceptually and like tactically different approach. It's like from the foundations and the emotions and the intentions on up, it's a completely different approach, because if the desire, if the intention is to try to get as much out of workers as possible for as little pay as possible and that is what makes your business run, that's going to be a very, very different intention to hold and therefore all of the actions that come after that are going to align with that intention, versus you go into your first hire and I think it is important to start out with these intentions and your very first hire don't wait until you've got 10 people on your team to try to change these sorts of foundational intentions is like when you start out with that intention of like, hey, this person is gifting me their energy, their time, their abilities, their experience, their you know all of the things that they bring into a job and so can we then create a system of reciprocity from the beginning so that it's fair and honest and just aligned from the beginning?
Kat Lee:I think is kind of what you're talking about here. Like they're just. It's easy to sort of nitpick all the little actions that come afterwards, but it always goes down to the roots.
Candice Elliott:Yeah, i was reading Pew Research at a poll recently of Americans and what they think about like a hierarchy and division in the workplace, and basically the statistic was 80% of people think that that's going to get worse in the next 20 years, and I really don't want that to happen. I want to live in a world where we're all supporting each other and we each have enough of what we need, but we're sharing with each other in a way so that we can all grow. So, like rising tide lifts all boats, i think. I mean I've done a bit of research in the last year about those systems of exploitation in the workplace specifically, and kind of how we came to the practices that we have today, and one that comes up a lot in when you're making your first hire or even just trying to find someone to do a little bit of work, has to do with paying people based on where they live.
Candice Elliott:And if we go back, there's a whole system of capitalism, colonization and industrialization that came about based on slave labor or very low paid labor, selling goods to places that are higher income and then generating basically wealth in Europe. And so when you're making decisions about how, for example, to pay people, which is one that comes up a bit like through the process of figuring out who to hire. That's a decision that there is to make. Do you pay relative to where you live or do you decide to pay relative to where someone else lives, like I hired a bookkeeper in Ghana years ago to help me clean up my books for the first tax season And I paid them what I would have paid someone an hourly wage in the United States, and I know that that did more for them than it would have done for a person here, but that was a part of this reciprocity. I feel like people who are working for my company should be receiving in the way that if they were living here, they would be receiving.
Kat Lee:Yeah, yeah, I love that. And if I'm thinking back to when I was considering hiring my first employee, I can't remember this woman's name, but you start doing these searches about virtual assistants.
Kat Lee:and then the algorithm, Unlike Upwork and Fiber yeah, and so then the algorithm starts picking things up, and so there was this coach that kept showing up on my Instagram ads of hiring, basically, a virtual assistant in a different country whether that was from the Philippines or different countries that don't have the same standard of living as here And essentially coaching coaches to hire them for $2 to $5 an hour. And that was at the very, very beginning of me even considering hiring a virtual assistant, and that just felt I can't even like to this day I still can't name like why that feels so wrong in my body, but it felt so wrong in my body And the justification is that, like the $5 there is going to actually support a living wage for somebody who lives in Vietnam, and so that's why we, as industrialized nations, should be sending money over in that way, and like there was just so much stickiness around that. And I think that, like I see the smile, i see you smiling about this, and so I think you probably have some things to say about this.
Candice Elliott:Because it reinforces the system of colonization that has been in place for hundreds of years, and for me, that's what's achy about it.
Candice Elliott:I've also been in rooms of people where they're really excited about finding someone who will work for $2 an hour, and there is no way that they could run their business without it, and so that's another kind of side of it is.
Candice Elliott:So how do you create your business in a way that it is generating enough income so that it can really fully support the people who are working for it? And that was a big shift that my business went through last year. Our living wage in Santa Cruz in two or three years went from $18 an hour to $27 an hour, and most of the people who work for me now are making around 30 an hour 30 to 35. And even more than that actually, now that I think about it, but back then it was like everybody was making between $20 and $25 an hour, and so it was a really big shift to like make those changes so quickly, and so it meant that I had to redesign my business and how it worked, and I had to get a lot better at describing what I the value that I brought bring to the people that I do work for. And then, of course, being in BAM has helped me to even further refine that I would love to.
Kat Lee:I feel like what we're talking about here is the crossroads that so many business owners sort of find themselves at, and it's something that I know that you found yourself at. I found myself there last year, and so I think that the motivations of hiring your forced employer contractor for most people comes from the place of like oh, there's so much to do, and like starting to like realize I can't do this all by myself. And so can we talk about like burnout for a second, because I think that there's a really important story there, so that we as business owners are hiring with these pure intentions of regulation versus scarcity and to like catch that in ourselves.
Candice Elliott:Yeah, Yeah, My, I mean my business came about because of an episode of burnout where I was working for a company at the time And there was just a lot going on and it was all really stressful And I had trouble like my body couldn't do it anymore and just decided to like convulsively shake in my car And like I literally couldn't keep myself from crying for like an hour and like trying to get my breath under control And it was really very intense And I somehow was sent to a psychiatrist and he was just like this is normal, Like this happens to people and you know, you just kind of pick up and go on.
Kat Lee:Oh, my God, so much cringe Yeah.
Candice Elliott:It's like what do you want me to prescribe you some medication? This is just like a one time thing.
Kat Lee:Okay.
Candice Elliott:Yeah, and I knew that he wasn't the person to help me, right? I mean, ultimately now, like I have found other resources that help me to live in a way that is more aligned, but at that time I didn't have them And I was just like what do I do? Like I know I can't keep doing this, like I know that I want to work for myself again. I had started my first company when I was 23 and we did bus tours in Florida, and then my business partner and I had a disagreement and it just kind of fell apart there, and so that's how I ended up going to school for human resources and then becoming a human resources manager for this restaurant group that I was working with, and I was like I can't, how do I do? how do I open?
Candice Elliott:my own business, and so I actually went away to Mendocino, to the art center there and they did a wood firing workshop And I was like wood firing all day and night. This process is really kind of awesome. If you're not familiar with it, you have like a big kiln that's outside and everyone who is participating in the firing loads all of their work into the kiln. There's usually Pottery work Yeah, pottery work, thank you. There's usually seven to nine people that participate at a time And then, 24 hours a day, for the next five to seven days you're chopping wood and feeding it into this kiln and making this really hot fire, and then there's a day where the kiln rests and everything cools and then you take it all out. And I love taking like pottery out of a kiln because it makes this like tinkling kind of a sound. It's just magical. it reminds me of fairies. So this is I was doing this like very artistic, very hands-on, very physical process And then also kind of like physically working through what was happening to me and my brain and then creating a business plan. And my business plan has all these quotes in it from like Rumi and Kavir and all these different writers who had influenced me, especially over the course of that year, and so they're still in there And I just decided to leave, and so that it was a really big transition and I made a lot of pottery actually in the first years of Fortress and Flourish, but then it started getting busier.
Candice Elliott:Right In Fortress and Flourish I started getting more clients, and I also became pregnant with my son, algernon, and I felt this pressure to like do a lot that I now recognize as like hustle culture and things, and there was a lot of what I was doing at that time that was kind of imitating what other people were doing in the online space. That wasn't fully integrated with what I wanted to be doing, but I think it's a journey to figure out what your business is all about. And so I knew I couldn't do all of the things on my plate. I was like building a course It was my first time ever recording a series of videos, like doing transcripts, all these different things And so I wanted to hire a virtual assistant And I just hired the first person that I talked to because I just like I don't know no-transcript, but my brain stopped working, my hiring brain stopped working, and I just felt like I really wanted to impress this person for some reason, like I wanted them to think that I was amazing to want to work with me instead of you know the other way around to, you know, vet them and make sure that they have the skills, the skill set that I need in order to actually do the work, and that it'll be a good relationship.
Candice Elliott:So it was even a learning process for me in hiring my first like virtual assistant, and it worked out for a while And we were able to like split things like in a good way. She started a job at a company anyway, so didn't have as much time to help anymore, but it was, yeah, real learning experience.
Kat Lee:So I want to pick through a couple of things that you were sharing and sort of frame it, because what I'm hearing and I know that you're like a nervous system nerd, like I am, and so like, if we listen to your story, what I'm hearing is these like states of freeze, intentional movement and of hustling And, you know, like going to the psychiatrist and having him say, like, what do you like, what do you, what do you want? Like this is normal, this is what humans do. And instead of hearing that and being like, oh so, this is normal, so I should just freeze around it, what I what I'm hearing is that you took it upon yourself to actually create that physical movement, and what I love about that is, yeah, pottery is not necessarily, you know, a part of your work as a human resources consultant, but moving your body And like I know that pottery can be a physically like, really intentional process physically moving your body helped you solve that problem of like what do I do with work? You know and it's something that actually my horse trainer has told me is if a horse is moving their feet, they are problem solving, and so, like I think humans are the same is when we shut down, we have decided that that's just a problem that's going to have to exist in my life. And when we go into that phrase site it's like okay, i have no answers, so let me just stay here in this state of like in capacity.
Kat Lee:So for folks who are listening, who feel guilty about maybe putting some time, intention, energy, money into that side thing that brings you joy. You know, like hearing Candice's story of here's a problem that existed in the work world, there's something that helped her feet get moving. And you know energy is energy and that helps the flow of you finding a solution to your work problem, which ultimately was about leaving. You know, like you need to leave in order to solve that problem. So just wanting to like, highlight and acknowledge that like that was just some really really beautiful nervous system, like work, whether you knew that was happening or not at the time, like that was actually you regulating your nervous system.
Candice Elliott:In hindsight I can see it And I think I knew that it was happening when I was doing it.
Candice Elliott:I think, for me, art and music have always been a place where I find flow And it's a, you know, walking in nature to you hikes, but where I'm not consciously working on a problem but it will work itself out And it's as if I'll have insights about it rather than having to, like, make my brain figure it out.
Candice Elliott:And pottery, specifically, was helpful for me to learn to slow down, because it's a lengthy process to go from.
Candice Elliott:I mean, if you start with, you know, clay that you wedge, you have to get it, you know, into the right like condition to throw, and then to to separate out all of those pieces into pieces that are thrown I will throw pottery And then to let them sit and dry for an amount of time, and then you go back and you trim them And then, if you're going to do any decoration on them it usually happens at that time And then they're fired for the first time And then you do glaze and then you fire them for a second time, and so it can take, like it, the shortest amount of time is like a week from start to finish, you know, but it can take months and months to get a piece from clay for them to final. I mean, i've had pieces that are unglazed, that have been fired, that are just waiting for the right time to go and kill, and so it helped me to learn a slower pace and timing and that waiting can make things more special.
Kat Lee:Yeah, yeah.
Kat Lee:I feel like that's something, that that's like a lesson that we all can learn.
Kat Lee:As entrepreneurs, we all want to, you know, be successful quotation marks in the ways that society deems to be successful, like just right off the bat.
Kat Lee:And I think that there's this illusion, particularly in the online coaching space where, like, it seems like people just like overnight, turn into these like six figures, seven figure bajillionaires who are, you know, doing handstands in Bali, like, and what I have found in terms of like my own business and mentoring other people in in their businesses, is that process of refinement and waiting and allowing and being in co-creation with your business, like it is not a process that can be rushed without having some sort of repercussions in the end, you know, and you know it's.
Kat Lee:It's one of these things where I think that, if we can relate it back to your, your process with pottery is like you can have this like idea in your mind of what you want that that finished product to look like, and there's like a result in mind And like We don't know what conditions are going to come up between the idea forming in your head and then the actual thing being completed and finished. And so, if we can have that kind of grace and surrender and you know, as you said it so beautifully like ability to like slow down and enjoy each part of the process, you know it becomes a more special and meaningful piece for you.
Candice Elliott:Yeah, i think it allows what you have learned to be integrated into the work that you're doing, because if you just rush through a project or a kind of a program that you've developed and you don't give yourself the time to iterate on it, it's never going to be as meaningful for you or for your business or for your clients as if you do that work of going back And I see how you do that in your programs of like refining over time and asking you know what makes sense for me to be doing versus other people, what is most aligned for me and what's most aligned for others.
Kat Lee:Yeah, yeah, and you know it's one of the it actually came up in our group call not with your group yesterday, but in the evening call that I had right after yours in BAM is this idea of like this I feel like if there's a through line for all the people who come through BAM, it's we are all trying to help people get closer to themselves so that you know the particular niche that you're in Eric quotes niche is kind of like the byproduct of that self reflective work And so, for example, like we had a creativity coach on the call last night and you know her work is about helping people get more and more in touch with their true version of themselves, and then the writing is just a lovely byproduct of them being in touch with themselves.
Kat Lee:You know, i think that in your work, the more and more people can get in touch with themselves, they start to see the ethics of what's right or wrong in their business, and so then the HR policies are a byproduct of that work that they've done, you know, and with BAM, yeah, like I, i love this part of BAM which is like you guys are at, like the last month and a half or so, because everyone's businesses look so different.
Candice Elliott:It's wild to see how much things have changed.
Kat Lee:Right, And it's like if we had all gone in with this like very rigid idea of like this is what I want my business to look like, and so I can teach you all the ways in which you can emulate and mimic my business. but it wouldn't be your business, you know. And so like, if we can release this idea of like it needs to look a particular way and the result needs to be this exact picture, then allow for that co-creative process with the universe, with your intentions, with what's happening in the world. just allow that to be a part of the conversation. Each one of us ends up with a business that's really really drastically different from each other's, and we need that difference. We need biodiversity in businesses so that, you know, each of our businesses becomes an expression of who we are individually, and if we're uniquely ourselves, then our business also needs to be uniquely itself as well.
Candice Elliott:Yeah, and the way that you bring on support to help too is can be so unique to your business. I mean, i think that with everyone that I'm working with right now, we've gone through a lot of different versions of what that work looks like and changed it over time to better fit all of our needs. And I mean I think, at least when I work with bigger companies, there's this like okay, we need to have this sales department and we need to have this like customer service, and that you know, it's like there's a mold of what you're supposed to fit into. And with solar printers, oftentimes it's like I need to get a VA first or whatever it is.
Candice Elliott:And my path looked a little different from that. I hired a nanny first, because that was or no, i think I hired people to help clean my house first. Honestly, that was like the first layer of support, where I was like welcoming in the work of other people to help ultimately help like my business and my family, and then Megan or nanny to help take care of my son, so that I would have time to dedicate. And then it was like finding a copywriter and a virtual assistant to support the business and then a bookkeeper, and so it can look kind of different ways depending on what the person's like, what your own needs are.
Kat Lee:Yeah, i love that. I love that, like, you bring in that you know your first hire doesn't have to be a virtual assistant or a bookkeeper, it can be, you know, somebody who helps out with you, know some of the things that you just need time to be able to devote to your business. You know, and I also want to circle back to what you said earlier, which is like your hiring brain stopped working, oh, yeah, and like, and I love that, because it's like the hiring brain stopped working and you're an HR person, yeah And so like. To me, like, this is where the importance of nervous system regulation comes into play is it doesn't matter how much you technically know as an HR person. You went into a fond state when you were thinking about hiring this virtual assistant. So, like, i think that this is why nervous system regulation is so, so, so crucial and so important is is being able to slow things down enough and integrated enough so that when you do hire, it comes from a state of abundance rather than from scarcity. You know, And for me, what that looked like and for anybody who's curious, i did an entire podcast episode with Alicia, who is my assistant, and we went through the entire process of like, of why I hired her and what my intentions were, what kind of safety nets I had to put in place before I could hire her so that my nervous system felt regulated through the hire.
Kat Lee:You know, i think that it's important to set up your business. I want to say set it up for success, but really, ultimately, i think what I mean to say is set it up for regulation. And so if anybody feels that sense of like, dysregulation when it comes to hiring their first employee or contractor like even Candice who, like, did this for a living like she got dysregulated when it came to her own business and it's nothing to be ashamed of, it's nothing to be like, you know to like hide about anyone's story. It's like when we are able to name these things, we're able to actually find ways to support ourselves. And so I'm curious for Candice, you know, in that state of dysregulation versus now knowing a lot more about the nervous system, how would you hire somebody differently? like, just like straight up advice for somebody who's thinking about their first hire?
Candice Elliott:Yeah, i think the first thing is just looking at your own workload, like what are all the things that you're doing right now? and not just in your business, because the work that you do in your home can can be related to time, and time is something that you need in order to do your own work. And so what are all the things that you're doing? I'm about to go on maternity leave, so I'm doing this again right now, like what are all the things? And then to go through and think about you know, okay, this is what I'm doing with my day to day. What are my dream things? What do I really want to be doing that's maybe not on this list already, or I keep trying to fit it onto this list And then try to decide what are the things that you need to be doing Like you have to be the one who does it versus what are the things that other people can do and how can you bring in support to help.
Candice Elliott:So it could look like having someone read through your emails and tell you which important ones you need to respond to. It could be automating something, like I use Calendly for all of my appointments, so I don't have to do the back and forth of like, this time or that time I just send someone a link, so there's a combination of like tools that can be helpful and then you know the support of real humans and people, and I think part of that is having people that you can bounce ideas off of, because that back and forth really, at least for me, helps me to become clearer about what I'm doing and what I want to be doing.
Kat Lee:Yeah, and it also gives you maybe some ideas that you hadn't thought about before. It's like one of the things that I really value in my friendships with you know, other entrepreneurs is, you know, my friend Lindsay Lockett and I were constantly texting each other and being like, hey, does this make sense? Like can you read this sales page for me and tell me where I need to clarify? you know, like things like that that other people in who aren't an entrepreneurship aren't necessarily going to be able to see quite as clearly because they just have a different lens. And you know, i think that this is this conversation is like reinforcing for me, like why I've asked you to teach one of the lessons in my program is is because you come into this concept that can be actually quite emotional for people, of hiring their first employee or hiring their first contractor, and you recognize all the nuances of it instead of just approaching it from this. Like this is how you do it Here's a 1099 versus a W9 and here's what the difference is between an employee versus a contractor is like like we can Google any of those things. But like what you're bringing into the conversation is like this nuance of you know it's understandable that this is a personal thing for you.
Kat Lee:It's understandable for me like the hardest part of hiring Alicia was not like teaching her how to do the skills of being my assistant.
Kat Lee:It was like actually unclenching, like the grasp that I had around all these tasks that I had unknowingly like identified as just being like a part of who I am, you know, and it's a process like she's been on the team for a little over a year now.
Kat Lee:It's a process that I'm still working on. You know she is always on this side being like, okay, i'm available, like what else can I take off of your plate? and during staff meetings she's actually started to try and being like, hey, like I can do that, because I don't always see it, like I don't always see the things that I can be taking off of my own plate, and so, knowing that it is an emotional process for folks for whatever reason, for me it happened to be around this struggle that I've always had around control, and then you also bring in the like technical, like actual HR nuts and bolts types things. So, yeah, i'm really you're going to be recording that in just a couple of weeks with me And I'm so glad that I get to have that as part of the core curriculum for BAM And hopefully this turns into a bigger workshop at some point. But we'll wait until after your maturity leave is done for that to happen.
Candice Elliott:Yeah, i'm so excited to be able to help. I think, to go back to your question about, like, what is different between being in a dysregulated state to being in a more more regulated state I'm not going to say I've never dysregulated, it is about alignment, like it is about because in the dysregulated state I was still doing that like okay, what makes sense for someone else to do what all is on my plate, kind of thing. But looking at that through the lens of, like, what is my dow? So my dow is power And what's my not dow? And how do I do the things that are more aligned for me and not do the ones that aren't? And it could be that the ones that don't happen just don't actually belong anymore. And that's an interesting like meeting through kind of process. But yeah, you're the I find I mean for myself too. In that time I had like control, like I wanted to control all of every piece of what this person was doing which was not good for them.
Kat Lee:I think it's good for either of you Or good for me.
Candice Elliott:Yeah, and I had an identity that was like wrapped up in everything that I was doing, and the more I think it's like. I think there's this word titration, right, you just do a little bit of like what you feel comfortable with and then you can pull it back. And so, with bringing on a new person to help, maybe it's just little pieces that you start with and then you add more as time goes on, and if something doesn't work, you can pull it back. You know like, and you can hand over something else. Yeah.
Kat Lee:So yeah, and I think that the regulation piece there, even after you've hired your first person, whoever that is is such an important piece to also keep your finger on the pulse of, because, for me, something that I've had to learn how to do is to communicate with Alicia Like this has nothing to do with you, this is like me.
Kat Lee:I need to like work through my own control shit here. Like I know that you're fully capable And so like that eases her nervous system. And she's had a history and she's shared on the podcast before of like she's had a history of feeling like, oh, why is that employer holding that away from me? Do they think that I'm not doing a good job? Is there something about my work that they're not happy about? And so, like having that clear line of communication between Alicia and I, where, you know, it's not easy for me to admit like, like I'm still working on my control shit here, you know, and it has nothing to do with her, her work, her work ethic, none of it has to do with her. And so I think that that helps with the co-regulation I would say between you know folks who are working together on a team, and you know, i find it interesting because and I think that just to like throw the seed out there for folks who are listening Candice and I have started talking about a workshop, probably next year, of doing like human resources, but then also bringing in a lens of human design. I'm studying human design right now. I'm so excited for that And I think it's so interesting because when I look at my team, the, without really knowing human design, i have, because I like hired folks in regulation and from the state of like okay, so here are my real needs.
Kat Lee:Our charts are really like beautiful, like we fill in the holes for each other. So like, for example, i have an undefined root Root energy is like the, the like the starter on your gas stove. Right, it's like the like charge that like gets that, that project going in terms of like work. And I've always found it really hard. Like, i have all these ideas and I always find it really hard to actually put those ideas into motion. Once there's some momentum in it, because I have a defined state role, i can get that thing going. And then I also have a defined heart, which is like the thing that gets the project over the finish line. And so for me undefined root, which means it's hard for me to get projects going, defined state role and defined heart. And Alicia has that defined root And so it's interesting because I just brought a potential offering to the table to the team a couple weeks ago And just talking to her like got my own root excited about this project.
Kat Lee:You know, like she was able to be like okay, so what needs to happen in order for this to get started? These are the ways in which we can structure the program. These are the things that we've seen working in BAM and what can we bring into that program so that it? you know we're we're learning from BAM, but also like letting go of some of the things that didn't work in BAM.
Kat Lee:And so like like having her sort of be that starting engine for me, like has been just unbelievably like, like such a big investment that I didn't even realize I was making when I hired her. And so, like I want to be able to like look at teams in that way And also give spiritual entrepreneurs like a place that we can look at their chart and be like okay, so these are the things that you do really well. And so when you're going out there and hiring your first employee, like these are the things that you need support with, and so let's ask interview questions in such a way that you can, you know, actually screen for those people.
Candice Elliott:Yeah, Yeah, it's so. This is something that I have been thinking about for a really long time actually is like human, how human design and wisdom can be a part of building teams, because there are a lot of different kinds of like personality tests that are used in the workplace all the time to try to help with communication and and I've taken a lot of them. But for me personally, understanding my own human design has helped me to know what is an alignment for me or not, what feels correct or not. I'm a generator, so when I start to get a feeling of frustration, i'm like, oh okay, this isn't an alignment for you, like let's try something different. Like what? what is that thing that feels good? And I just see so much potential for how this can help teams to work and grow together.
Kat Lee:And yeah, yeah, and you know, i just want to throw like a shout out out there to my human design teachers. they're Nadia Last and Samantha Fotenhauer and they run a really, really great program. So if anyone out there is interested, i'm happy to put the the link to their, their work down below.
Kat Lee:They also have some great podcast episodes that they've done together.
Kat Lee:And, and to me, like this human design work is, it feels less like prescriptive, like I feel like sometimes we can get into some of these like personal personality type testing and like astrology readings, and it's like it almost feels like it takes the autonomy out of somebody's like decision making, just in terms of like hey, this is what the planets are doing, so you should do it this way.
Kat Lee:And the thing that I find really lovely about human design is that it feels really permissive, like here's an explanation of maybe some things that you've not even been able to put like a voice to, And so, instead of just getting blocked and stuck and frustrated about that thing, can we help you sort of like redirect your energy in a way that actually works with who you are fundamentally. So, as you all can probably imagine, candice and I have like so many things that we want to talk about and share, which is why I had kind of teased it a little bit earlier of like she's teaching a workshop for BAM members And, if you can go over, just like a brief overview of what we're going to cover in that. So like you only get access to this workshop with Candice if you're in BAM, but in the future she and I are going to be doing a separate workshop that we're going to open up for the public.
Candice Elliott:Yeah, well, i definitely want to start out with you know, learning from the group, what is coming up, what the challenges are that are coming up around potentially hiring someone or their own work and workload and that piece of it, and I'll give practical steps, like the steps that I already knew as an HR person, to figure out what the job looks like, how to interview people, how to create a style of interviewing that feels good to you.
Candice Elliott:That isn't just like asking a person a whole bunch of questions and having it feel weird And then a couple options for how to bring people on to your team. So, either as an independent contractor or as an employee, and I think that having, like you were talking about having a runway, like a gentle way of bringing people on and a trial period to see how it's working, not in like a let's test this person and activate everybody's nervous systems around it, but like let's let's, you know, figure out how to, how to create that on ramp so that everyone's successful and so that if it isn't the right fit, then we know early on.
Kat Lee:Yeah, Yeah, that's great, and for those folks who may want to look you up, can you talk a little bit about some of the work that you do for teams as well as for solopreneurs, and then let us know how we can find you?
Candice Elliott:Yeah, yeah. So the best way to keep in touch with me is through my newsletter and I will put the link to that in the show notes. It has all the updates on what's happening in my company, fortress and Flourish, and then my podcast, the Hearth, and then also just personal updates, which I'm sure will happen over the summer as my next baby comes in to the world. And when I work with companies that are a little bit bigger, it's primarily through my program that I developed in BAM, which is called Let's Lead Together, and it's a year long program where we work on developing a leadership pipeline, like a way for people to grow through mentorship in your organization. We do a whole bunch of HR compliance stuff, so we get your handbook and job descriptions and compensation plan all updated. And then we do leadership sessions, so one-on-one sessions between me and the CEO or executive director.
Candice Elliott:I work with both for-profit and nonprofit organizations until those are really focused on the areas where you're feeling the need to grow, where you feel like you're stuck, and helping you to get to the next kind of step for you and for your business. Yeah, and then I do human resources mentorship, so for people who are new to the field of human resources. I have a mentorship program that is just like one-on-one sessions And it's really being new to. Hr is really intimidating And because there is so much like structurally that is forced on the role, it can be difficult to navigate your personal ethics and choices and decisions with what you have to do in this job And so it's to help people with that transition.
Kat Lee:Yeah, I really want to send my husband's new employer to you because I'm like there's something going on here that y'all aren't getting Like. People need more than six hours of sleep in between shifts. Yeah.
Candice Elliott:Send all the people, all the exploitive companies to me, yeah, yeah. And then I'm working on a course for solo printers that is to help with that first hire. So I'm not sure when it'll be coming out, but sometime.
Kat Lee:And so if we're subscribed to your newsletter then we'll get first dibs on that. I'm assuming. Yep, exactly, sweet, and website and Instagram. handle all the ways that people can find you, please.
Candice Elliott:Yeah, so my website is fortressandflourishcom and Instagram handle is at fortressandflourish, and then LinkedIn, because HR and LinkedIn go hand in hand. But it's just Candice Elliott and you'll find me there.
Kat Lee:Perfect. Well, thank you so much for having this conversation with me. I always love chatting with you And it's one of those things where I feel like there needs to be trauma-informed practices in every aspect of how we do work. And I don't know, hitting it from the HR point of view feels like a very efficient way to like infuse that into a company. So thank you for the work that you do And thanks for being a part of my community.
Candice Elliott:Yeah, happy to be. Thank you so much for having me today.